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Asking for opinions if you have the time. Vichy & Underground

  • Lynetta (647 posts)
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    Asking for opinions if you have the time. Vichy & Underground

    Trying to keep up with my addled brain so I can perhaps be where I am needed to get back to helping for the good for everyone. I am not supposed to call anyone out but there was a message in the past two days about perception of the Trump administration and I did not study it or the replies because I needed some head clearing time  Made it to the top 10.

    Before life took me over I studied WWII spurred on by the books fully illustrated books my grandfather bought about the war along with some great books and an encyclopedia and reading Leon Uris novels. I read a whole lot more but realized that at that time I did not have the world experience to understand everything.  I probably don’t now but here goes.

    Is what that OP message said what the Vichy French was about?  What happened to them? What happened to the Communists when Russia fell? It seemed to me the bad guys, carpetbaggers took over there and in the satellites. My uncles went with a load of donated farm equipment to try to get independent agriculture started there hoping for an outcome similar to ours. Maybe part of Russia did get better but we made them the boogeymen just now so I cannot go by what is passing for news and main stream magazines. History is written by the victors but the story comes out eventually. My opinion.

    Is it better to “go along to get along” my mother’s favorite caution to her budding early hippy daughter or fight?  I only have family on FB a lot of Republicans some just waking up. and I have been putting out information on the pipelines and Standing Rock. I see this argument going on there too. Chairman Aruchembald (sp) etal vs Chase Iron Eyes etal.

    Edited for clarity and typos.

    Enthusiast, 7wo7rees, leveymg like this

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  • leveymg (1818 posts)
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    1. Interesting questions I've never seen posed before about the Vichy French.

    I can tell you that their ideological Rightwing brethren in the US — the Dulles Bros. and Prescott Bush fascists and Nazi financiers — went on to take over the American deep state and the actual political Establishment in the west.  The Hillary Clintonites are their progeny by way of GHW Bush and Mrs. Digby-Churchill-Harriman, herself the personification of the transAtlantic Fascist International.

    As for the post Soviet Nomenkatura, arguably some have morphed into the Putin elites while others aligned with the rival oligarchs.  A great many simply seem to have retired or emigrated.

  • Ohio Barbarian (1361 posts)
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    2. The Vichy French were mostly homegrown French fascists who preferred

    sucking up to the Nazis over seeing any leftist influence in their own government. Their intellectual roots went all the way back to the old Bourbon aristocracy that was overthrown by the French Revolution, and they most definitely didn’t believe in democracy. Petain was a puppet. Vichy was really run by Pierre Laval, of whom one historian said, “The only good thing about Pierre Laval was that he was so easy to hate.”

    They were also incredibly bigoted racists, and cooperated with the Nazis in the Holocaust. Many of them were determined to do whatever it took to prevent the re-emergence of the Popular Front, a leftist coalition government early in the Great Depression that prevented France from getting it nearly as bad there as it did in the USA and Germany by some redistribution of wealth, which is to say they were either wealthy themselves or sucked up to the wealthy. A truly reprehensible lot.

    The Vichy regime, which ruled unoccupied southern France from the fall of France in 1940 until the Germans occupied it after the Allied invasion of North Africa in 1942, pretty much disappeared at that time. Some were killed by the French Resistance, some were executed after the liberation in 1944, some were imprisoned, and some fled the country with their ill-gotten gains.

    For details, I recommend two books: The Fall of France and France: The Dark Years, both by Julian Jackson. The first is about all of the internal causes, political and otherwise, that contributed to French defeat in 1940, the second is a history of France during the German occupation. Both show just how complex France and the French are, and how broad-brushing them is every bit as much an ignorant and stupid thing to do as broad-brushing any country or people.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."--Voltaire