• working on it

    If you are having login or password reset issues, please email [email protected] or [email protected]

  • Site issues

    New hamster wheels put into service last night: hopefully things will be a little faster and smoother now! There *were* some hiccups, but things seem to be OK now. Please log any problems in the "Help & Q&A Forum", thanks!

JackPine Elders

Home JackPine Elders

Since we all probably knew a Hippie or two.

  • Lord Thomas (876 posts)
    Profile photo of Lord Thomas

    Since we all probably knew a Hippie or two.

    Or was one or is one.

    These older political people, had the same experiences. Do you ever wonder……

    Why Pot is still illegal, why the constant warfare, ect……..

    I used to think, when our generation grew up took over the government, things would change.

    Paper Roses, VoiceOfReason, glinda and 13 othersazurnoir, Haikugal, Spanishprof27, so far from heaven, Baba OhReally, liberalbeforeitwaspopular, 7wo7rees, PennLawyer, Silver Witch, 99thMonkey, immoderate, morningglory, Jan Boehmermann like this

    The Only Consistent Thing in Life is Change.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

▼ Hide Reply Index
30 replies
  • 1 month ago #7
    • Jan Boehmermann (2493 posts)
      Profile photo of Jan Boehmermann Donor

      1. The hippies lost……

      They  were right, but they lost.

      And the war mongering band played on………..

      • 99thMonkey (2444 posts)
        Profile photo of 99thMonkey

        2. There is a great song about that very phenomenon you know ..

      • Lord Thomas (876 posts)
        Profile photo of Lord Thomas

        3. I always hoped they went underground.

        Guess they ended up like me.

        The Only Consistent Thing in Life is Change.

      • FanBoy (6341 posts)
        Profile photo of FanBoy

        25. they didn't lose exactly; two or three things

        – the ptb changed the game board by various means; economic, political, social

        – people have to make a living or go into crime, poverty, death

        – people adopt the values of their reference peers iow sell out/careerism

        I had a friend who made it to the ‘top’ of her profession which I won’t mention but it was, on the surface, fighting the ‘good fight’; suffice to say she hobnobs now with dc movers and shakers.  from a local upper-middle class family, she dropped her working class friends a long time ago for various reasons, but one was that her friends no longer served her and in her eyes they ‘didn’t get it’.

        she did a lot of good work, but looking at the big picture in her area, we’re now worse off than when she began, and the arena she started in is in imminent danger of being defunded by trump.  so what was the point of it all, really?

        no worries for her, however; she’ll live out her retirement years very well-off while her working class peers burn.  so it seems that was the point of it all.  best of both worlds; get rich by doing good.  it just doesn’t work, but that was the model they sold us — so many ‘helpers’ are in the same blind alley

    • Silver Witch (3679 posts)
      Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

      4. As an old hippy I always wondered what the fuck happened.

      and then I remember there were never enough of us and many were lost to Vietnam, drugs and prison.

      Maybe now that we old we can win.

       

      Melodie

      You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~ Clarence Darrow
      • Lord Thomas (876 posts)
        Profile photo of Lord Thomas

        5. Vietnam, drugs and prison, so very true.

        I think maybe a lot of us were kinda in the groove as a way to escape what was happening at home, or for some to rebel.

        The Only Consistent Thing in Life is Change.

        • Silver Witch (3679 posts)
          Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

          9. Thank you for this OP Lord Thomas.

          It has reminded me we must continue the things we  of back then. Many have come to pass at least partially.

          You are right that many only joined to reap the side effects of the movement (sex, drugs, freedom).

          I wonder our freedom is what scared everyone and made some turn back to the “Old ways”.  As if AIDS were the resulting punishment for the sexual revolution, rather than just a thing that happened.

          Am I making sense?

          You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~ Clarence Darrow
          • Lord Thomas (876 posts)
            Profile photo of Lord Thomas

            12. You mostly always make sense.

            I think the big killer was the war on Drugs.

            Aids was just a thing that happened.

            The Only Consistent Thing in Life is Change.

            • Silver Witch (3679 posts)
              Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

              13. Agreed. Just a thing.

              You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~ Clarence Darrow
      • FanBoy (6341 posts)
        Profile photo of FanBoy

        24. and diverted into identity politics and careerism

    • so far from heaven (7366 posts)
      Profile photo of so far from heaven Donor

      6. You won't believe how often I lament

      how we had it in our hands and we lost it.

      We had changed the world forever except we didn’t follow through.

      All those protests, the takeovers, sit-ins, chain bound roadblocks, the love and the hate, hope and despair, the blood and the ideals.

      Like the wind. You feel it’s power but then it’s gone.

      Like the sun, you feel it’s heat, then it’s night.

      We held the future in our hands, and gave it away.

      Bite me Deadpool.     "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx
      • Silver Witch (3679 posts)
        Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

        10. No no So far From Heaven. It was taken from us!

        We changed a lot, so much so Nixon and his people plotted to stop us with the war on drugs. Then we got weary or lost or afraid. But we did change somerhingf and WE started the questioning!

        Never forget we started the questioning, and the voice of challenging the Status quo grows.

        :hug:

        You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~ Clarence Darrow
        • so far from heaven (7366 posts)
          Profile photo of so far from heaven Donor

          11. But our youth and energy are gone.

          Todays’ youth don’t feel the same need for change that we did. They don’t see the horrors of the wars. They don’t feel the corruption and the dogs and the mace and the billy clubs like we did. They didn’t witness Selma. They never went to a restaurant and noticed the ‘colored’ water fountains and bathrooms.

          We had nothing to lose. Remember the draft? I was supremely lucky, because I got accepted to college my junior year into the sciences and my draft number was 326 and with a 4S deferment I just threw the card in the trash on the way out of the draft room.

          And hit the streets with the others, most of whom weren’t so lucky.

          Today it’s worry about the social app you need to be on.

          Bite me Deadpool.     "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx
          • Silver Witch (3679 posts)
            Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

            14. I think many see.

            I was lucky too as a woman I could not be drafted. I marched and yelled and protested.

            I have hope the protests will continue I believe in the 30 and 40 somethings and believe they will see. The truth is clear.

            Hang in there.  LOVE WINS!

            You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~ Clarence Darrow
            • so far from heaven (7366 posts)
              Profile photo of so far from heaven Donor

              15. I plan on hanging real tough.

              Always have.

              Bite me Deadpool.     "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx
              • Silver Witch (3679 posts)
                Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

                17. We shall hang together eh??

                You are fab! And so well spoken.

                You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free. ~ Clarence Darrow
                • so far from heaven (7366 posts)
                  Profile photo of so far from heaven Donor

                  18. I thank you for your kind words.

                  And yes, we shall hang tough together.

                  Bite me Deadpool.     "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx
    • Sadie (3051 posts)
      Profile photo of Sadie Donor

      7. Late 70's Child

      whose first concerts were Led Zeppelin, The Who, CCR, Doobies and Alvin Lee.  I sort of dreamed of things never changing.

      Everyone should read, “The Emperor Has No Clothes”.    Great explanation.

        Wake up, peeps, their kids go to Harvard and Yale; your kids go to Iraq & Afghanistan.   
      • Lord Thomas (876 posts)
        Profile photo of Lord Thomas

        16. Grand Funk Railroad – Black Sabbath – Led Zepplin

        My first 3 concerts.

        Things were sooooo much simpler back then. Sex – Drugs – Rock & Roll.

        The Only Consistent Thing in Life is Change.

    • NVBirdlady (3774 posts)
      Profile photo of NVBirdlady Donor

      8. I was too young to be a hippy but I was one in spirit. My oldest sister and

      her husband at the time were hippies. The warmongers should never have succeeded but it appears they did. Sad really.

      President Trump. Thanks DNC, HRC, DWS. #StillSanders. #NoDAPL  #NoKXL Giant Meteor 2020
    • GoodWitch (906 posts)
      Profile photo of GoodWitch Donor

      19. Some of us got jobs, got married, had kids

      and tried to hang on to the best values of the late 60s, and pass them on to our kids. And sometimes, despite our best intentions, life just wore us down.

      Make America THINK again
    • LuckyDog (640 posts)
      Profile photo of LuckyDog

      20. "…Why Pot is still illegal, why the constant warfare, ect……..

      You are aware that about a dozen states have legalized cannabis, right?  And more to come.

      Do you remember Vietnam?  If you do you might recall why it was ended.  It was because all those hippies and students demonstrated to the point of sponsoring national days of Moratorium, shutting down large parts of the US.  Causing military recruiting offices to be like war zones and closing many down.  Or calling out corrupt corporations like Dow Chemical and napalm and their recruiting on college campuses.  Public opinion was changed through the determination of those millions of  hippies and students and their refusal to accept “no we can’t.” Remember?  There were many millions of us back in the streets in February, 2003 too.  We didn’t prevent the invasion but we hit the streets anyway.

      Hippies may not be visible to you but their political effect is still felt.  Remember Occupy just a few years ago?  That was a spontaneous public outcry against first the banksters and eventually the police state as well in all its manifestations.  You don’t think that wasn’t inspired by the methods of non-violent protest introduced in the sixties by mostly hippies and students?  I was present for all three, Vietnam, Iraq, and Occupy.  Think Bank Transfer Day.

      You wonder what happened?  I don’t.  I’m still here and so are many others.  Some raised families, some started businesses, some became doctors, lawyers, some got into politics, some stayed home.  Believe me, just because the great swath of middle class kids that had their fling with pot and free love or whatever, those trappings of hippiedom always mentioned, and then returned to their safe middle class existence in pursuit of the American Dream, doesn’t mean the rest of us gave up our values.  Bell bottoms may have gone out of style but activism and caring didn’t.  Maybe you are looking for superficial answers to something that is not so simplistic.

      To me you sound like you have lived in a cave somewhere for the last 50 years.

      We are still here.

    • LiberalElite (3698 posts)
      Profile photo of LiberalElite Donor

      21. IMO every generation thinks they'll change the world –

      and, FWIW hippies didn’t take over the government anyway.

      I feel much better since I've given up hope
    • bemildred (1954 posts)
      Profile photo of bemildred Donor

      22. We, or some of us, failed to appreciate the necessity of good government.

      We settled for getting the government off our backs somewhat, for a while, while leaving the fundamental economic and political control of the country in the same hands. We still thought Capitalism was good. We still liked our cars. We still liked our new tech, the computer revolution was just warming up. Global warming was not so obvious. We still believed our news media didn’t lie, fresh off Watergate.

      I myself worked in the defense bidness for almost 20 years. I had to make a living, support my family.

      All the economic and ecological warnings were there back then, in the 60s, I read them.

      We elected Jimmy Carter, passed some laws, but then we thought we were done.

      It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
    • LuckyDog (640 posts)
      Profile photo of LuckyDog

      23. Autopsy of the last 35 or so years

      The seventies spawned runaway inflation and Reagan

      After Watergate the pubs vowed never to be so humiliated again. Reagan was ushered in as the savior of the party after the Iran hostage situation spelled the end of the Carter administration, with a new conservative prescription for a fatigued nation. Tired of Vietnam. Tired of inflationary spirals that weakened the economy and hence, families.

      Enter PACs (permanently changed the electoral and legislative processes), hate radio bloomed (captive audiences in rural America that only listened to AM radio), was nothing new (see Fr. Coughlin of the 30s and Bishop Sheen of the 50s) but made a big resurgence, and overt union bashing (see firing of PATCO workers), forever changing the national economic landscape. Reagan killed the Equal Time Provision and the airways became cesspools of non-stop propaganda.

      Families in the fifties and early sixties needed only dad to be the breadwinner and everyone could take vacations, save money for the kids’ education, and buy a new car every 5 years or so. Thanks in large part to well-paying union jobs. Mom could stay at home and focus on being full time caregiver and home maker. That died an ignominious death as economic pressures in the form of inflation, bankruptcies and trade imbalances ruled the day. Drugs had only been a rumor from distant ghettos, serial killers were a rare morbid curiosity, hitchhiking was safe and common. Pollution was largely hidden and unrecognized save for late night monologue jokes about LA’s smog. AIDS was just rearing its ugly head.

      Not any more.

      I read an interesting account of a conversation out on the Kansas prairie from 2011. This was in the book “Oregon Trail,” an account of a contemporary crossing America on the Oregon Trail in a covered wagon by the author, Rinker Buck and his brother, Nicholas Buck. They would be greeted in small towns by crowds with apples and water for their mule team and beverages and sandwiches for the Brink brothers. They noticed most family units gathered consisted of the usual array of kids/ pets etc., but the adults seemed somehow older.

      When Rinker asked one of them about this he got a response that surprised and shocked. He related that Buck would see this again and again as they crossed the country to Oregon in small town America. The man was the kids’ grandfather and he told Buck the story of their son. Faced with either joining the military or trade school after high school, their son chose the welding trade and did well working his way up to a well-paying union job.

      Then the crash of 2008 happened and he was laid off. Unable to get another good paying job, he fell prey to what that grandfather told Buck they would see all across rural America. The meth epidemic. Their son had a girlfriend and since 2008 they spawned two kids. The son was busted for dealing several times and is in a state recovery facility, the mother disappeared a couple years prior. These grandparents were not alone. This phenomena has spread all across rural America according to this “grandfather,” where both opioid and meth addiction is taking a mighty toll on our youth. These grandparents gladly took on the chore, he delaying his retirement to pay for them, as his wife, a former teacher, took retirement due to her feeling she had messed up somehow by not being home to rear their son full-time. He related to Buck that the chore is much more rewarding this time around as they have the benefit of having done it once. So sad.

      Ironic that a condition recently believed to be unique to inner city family units, the grandparents have to all too often pick up the burden of raising kids with no count parents being unable to do so. We are now seeing this in rural America. Are we seeing another lost generation? Raised by their grandparents?

      • FanBoy (6341 posts)
        Profile photo of FanBoy

        26. iran hostage situation – october surprise

        The October Surprise conspiracy theory refers to an alleged plot to influence the outcome of the 1980 United States presidential election…One of the leading national issues during that year was the release of 52 Americans being held hostage in Iran since November 4, 1979.[1] Reagan won the election. On the day of his inauguration—in fact, 20 minutes after he concluded his inaugural address—the Islamic Republic of Iran announced the release of the hostages. The timing gave rise to an allegation that representatives of Reagan’s presidential campaign had conspired with Iran to delay the release until after the election to thwart President Carter from pulling off an “October surprise”.

        According to the allegation, the Reagan Administration rewarded Iran for its participation in the plot by supplying Iran with weapons via Israel and by unblocking Iranian government monetary assets in US banksAfter twelve years of mixed media attention, both houses of the US Congress held separate inquiries and concluded that the allegations lacked supporting documentation.

        Nevertheless, several individuals—most notably former Iranian President Abulhassan Banisadr,[2] former Naval intelligence officer and U.S. National Security Council member Gary Sick; and former Reagan/Bush campaign staffer and White House analyst Barbara Honegger — have stood by the allegation.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory

         

        Reagan was a ‘made man’ long before he became president.  back to his days as a supposed democrat and union head but always worked for the man:

        “We Must Keep the Labor Unions Clean”: “Friendly” HUAC Witnesses Ronald Reagan and Walt Disney Blame Hollywood Labor Conflicts on Communist Infiltration
        During the 1930s, the dominant labor union in Hollywood, the International Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees Union (IATSE), was led by men with ties to organized crime. Studio heads also supported union leaders financially in order to inhibit strikes and keep labor cost increases low. After IATSE leaders were sentenced to prison terms for extortion, organizing drives by opposition labor groups began to surge. The Conference of Studio Unions (CSU), a craft union coalition headed by Herbert K. Sorrell, was founded in 1941 following a divisive, but successful strike against Walt Disney Productions by cartoonists aligned with Sorrell. During an eight-month CSU-led industry-wide strike in 1945, IATSE, aided by the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Values (MPA), a right-wing anticommunist industry group, launched a campaign to brand their rival as communistic. A further strike marked by police violence occurred the following year, and in 1947, with the cooperation of Screen Actors’ Guild president Ronald Reagan, the studio heads, MPA, and IATSE emerged victorious in the jurisdictional battle. In the following testimony before the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC)—which the MPA had repeatedly urged to investigate subversives in the industry—Reagan and Disney portrayed the labor struggles solely in terms of a battle between forces for and against Communism.

        http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6458

         

        Reagan ‘named names’

        As a budding politician in Hollywood’s acting community after World War II, Ronald Reagan served as a confidential informant for the FBI, according to records released by the bureau.

        The FBI documents, obtained by the Mercury News in a freedom- of-information request, show that Reagan — identified as “T-10” — kept agents informed about pro-Communist influences in the Screen Actors Guild and other Hollywood organizations.

        The reports show that he and his first wife, actress Jane Wyman, provided the FBI with the names of actors whom they believed were members of a clique with a pro-Communist line.

        http://www.mercurynews.com/2010/11/22/document-1985-mercury-news-article-reagan-acted-as-informant-for-fbi/

        it was under Reagan’s tenure as SAG president that members had to sign that they weren’t communists.

         

        Ties to organized crime through MCA:

        Ronald Reagan was an invention of the Hollywood conglomerate, MCA, which was founded in 1924 by Jules Stein, a Chicago ophthalmologist who quickly became friendly with the local underworld. Every facet of Reagan’s life, from his careers in acting and politics to his financial successes, were directed by MCA, which, with the help of the Mafia, was the most powerful force in Hollywood from the mid-1940s until the Bronfman family purchased the company in 1995.     Reagan came to Los Angeles in 1937 to make motion pictures, and, in 1940, MCA bought out his talent agency.  Lew Wasserman became Reagan’s personal agent; he negotiated a million-dollar contract with Warner Brothers on Reagan’s behalf.  In 1946, Wasserman became the president of MCA, and the following year, Reagan, with his film career already in decline, became the president of the Screen Actors Guild.  By his own admission, Reagan immediately aligned himself with the corrupt Teamsters and other mob-connected unions in an effort to combat Hollywood Reds.

         A sweetheart relationship developed between MCA and the guild, which culminated in July 1952 during Reagan’s fifth consecutive term as SAG’s president.  Reagan and Laurence Beilenson, an attorney for MCA … negotiated an exclusive blanket waiver with SAG that permitted MCA to engage in unlimited film production.  The agreement violated SAG’s bylaws…

         In 1962, the Justice Department filed a federal antitrust suit against MCA … Reagan was the subject of criminal and civil investigations by both the FBI and a federal grand jury in Los Angeles….Reagan was subpoenaed before the grand jury, but he appeared to experience amnesia during his testimony on February 5, 1962… Nancy Reagan had been a member of SAG’s board of directors since 1951…

        http://www.moldea.com/ReaganRedux.html

         
        Connected to  jules stein…

        (Daughter) Stein’s first marriage in 1958 was to William vanden Heuvel, a lawyer who served in the U.S. Justice Department under Robert F. Kennedy, and who later also became a diplomat and author. Since 1984, he has been the chairman of the Roosevelt Institute. Their first daughter, Katrina vanden Heuvel, was born in 1959; she is now the editor and publisher of The Nation magazine…

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Stein

         

        • LuckyDog (640 posts)
          Profile photo of LuckyDog

          28. Those are quite an extensive listing of Raygun's deeds

          Did you see the film “Trumbo,” last year?  It was a great performance by Bryan Cranston portraying one of the few that went to prison after being acvused of being a commie in the HUAC hearings.  John Wayne was also portrayed as sympathetic with Hedda Hopper’s campaign to rid Hollywood of its commies.  Helen Mirren was great as Hopper.

          I am intimately familiar with Reagan’s time as governor here.  I was a witness to his teargassing the student infirmary on the UC campus when he tried to squelch the free speech movement.  I saw him institute mandatory tuition in the UC system, mainly to try and keep the riff raft out, etc.

          Several years later while he was prez, I was working for the Feds in the Forest Sevice fighting wildfires when he fired the PATCO workers.  Needless to say we were all concerned that summer that he might fire the firefighters next.  I recall him proposing to tax unemployment benefits and I think he succeeded, but mine had run out just before that happened.

          A year or so later I was a volunteer at Northern California Services for the poor when Reagan’s HHS secretary Richard Schweicker rolled back the disability rules to eliminate any patient claiming either back problems or mental problems, as they now had to be objectively proven all over again.  We were inundated with folks suffering great harm after these changes also cut their meds off.  We managed to hold hearings and get judgments and then file appellate briefs in Washington to stop the madness.  After a few months of this and the court in D.C. getting overwhelmed with appeals so much so that due process was not possible within time limits and the government had to abandon the program of eliminating those categories of impairments for the disabled.  Schweicker was soon replaced by almost as bad Margaret Heckler.

          Fuck Reagan.

          • FanBoy (6341 posts)
            Profile photo of FanBoy

            29. ah — you in ca were the test case…

            didn’t see Trumbo but familiar with the history

            yes, f*** his rotting corpse the little toady

          • VoiceOfReason (989 posts)
            Profile photo of VoiceOfReason Banned

            30. Yeah, fuck reagan

            and the horse he rode in on.

            The robin hood of the rich.

            "Men who do evil brilliantly are often admired"  Voltaire BERN BABY BERN!!  War is madness!
      • FanBoy (6341 posts)
        Profile photo of FanBoy

        27. as for the infiltration of hard drugs into what used to be "working" white

        communities, similar to the infiltration of drugs into inner city ghettos (which had previously been ‘working communities’ as well though most people’s memories don’t go back that far) —

        by design, imo, though it can’t be proven to the letter — a lot of circumstantial evidence though.

        a good book on the subject:

        A Plague on Your Houses: How New York was Burned and Public Health Crumbled

        https://books.google.com/books?id=FeLk33Vn6jsC&pg=PA12&dq=%22a+plague+on+your+houses%22+deindustrialize&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi78-n8zq3SAhUB9GMKHdOYC0kQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=%22a%20plague%20on%20your%20houses%22%20deindustrialize&f=false

        covers the de-industrialization of new York, drugs, deliberate cut-off to fire service in poor/minority communities, the burning of the south Bronx and the associated spread of disease including aids, the ‘bankruptcy’ of NYC and takeover of finance capital, culminating in the yuppie white Disneyland NYC became…

        1. ghettoize working communities by moving their jobs
        2. 2. bring in drugs which are adopted as either a way to make money or a way to escape reality
        3. cut off services  & kill people, herd survivors into remaining territory or scatter them to the winds, promoting disease a/o dissolution of personal/community/tribal ties
        4. abandonment of property by owners, landlords, tenants = cheap real estate ripe for takeover/redevelopment by Richie rich